Director of American Bioethics Advisory Commission Speaks with Dr. Fulda

Notes on Conversation , October 2, 1997

Dr. Gerhardt Fulda, head of German delegation in Paris in July

1. Dr. Fulda said that the name of the ABAC has caused some irritation there.

2. He had my fax, and wanted to address the matter of consensus right away. He said that many delegations supported the German position. Germany was not alone;consensus was established. The first task of the delegation was to influence other delegations, to open  them to a more political dimension. There was a need for ethical limits established on research possibilities. He said that "it was not so difficult to get support for this position."

It is true that the Germans tabled their first wording, which said:

That the cloning of a human being -- that is, artificial production of an embyo, possessing the same genetic information as another human being -- should be prohibited.

The original German position would prohibit research on human embryos; the German have such a prohibition in their national law. But they had a clear understanding from the outset from other European delegations, that the original proposal sounded too strong, and would not get the full support even of other European delegations. He said that they "easily accepted the new version, since the main goal was  to have a prohibition of cloning." This was a political declaration, and the specific techniques were not important.

Could the text be read to permit somatic cell nuclear transfer, as long as the human embryo is not implanted? Fulda: "This text could be read that way, it  is ambiguous. That is the charm of the text. It is, so to speak, a hidden disagreement. In our understanding the text should be read to mean that if  there is any intention to reproduce a human being [this would be banned].  But other delegations will interpret it in their own way."

The Americans were not present at the [formal] meeting of the drafting group, and had no input. He had a long conversation with Meslin. What the Americans did in the foyer, he does not know.